Thursday, October 18, 2007

Inter-racial dating and black women (part one)

The 70% single rate among black american women is probably not news to most of you. I've heard countless discussions regarding this phenomenon and what might be causing it. While the startling number of black males who date inter-racially is acknowledged by most as a primary contributing factor, there are other consequences of black male interracial dating that I have not heard being discussed. What I'm referring to is the relative social value of black men and women and how they are affected by the interracial dating disparity.


By social value I'm referring to how much of a "catch" a person is considered to be, and as a result how many options that person has socially, and how much leverage this person has in relationships with the opposite sex.. Normally, an ideal relationship would consist of a man and a woman with relatively equal social values. In these relationships the couples seem to be the most content, as neither person takes the other for granted and both are happy with their respective partner. Problems tend to occur when one person has much more social value than the other. For example, and attractive man who is a doctor (who would be considered a catch by many women) usually doesn't end up with an unatractive women (who is usually not considered a catch). Likewise, an attractive woman usually doesn't end up with an overweight burger-flipper. In relationships such as these, feelings of inadequacy from the person with lower social value are often the result. Often times the person with lower social value feels "lucky" to be with his or her partner even in situations in which the partner is abusive, neglectful, or has been unfaithful.


You're probably wondering what relative social value has to do with the black community and the 70% single rate among black women. Simply stated, it seems that black men in the U.S are systematically being over-valued while black women are being under-valued. As a result, the average black man is no longer on the same level socially as the average black woman. The average black man is now considered "more of a catch" and thus has higher social value than the black woman. As a result, black men have much more relative power and influence in relationships with black women. Black men can afford to be pickier and choosier, and often feel that they are too good to be tied down to just one woman. Black women as a result have to set their sites lower, and even feel "lucky" when they catch a man who would otherwise be beneath them.

So what has caused this over-valuation of black men and undervaluation of black women? The inter-racial dating disparity between black men and black women is one of the primary reasons for this warped dynamic.

But in order to understand how this is happening, one must first understand the fundamentals of supply and demand. Generally speaking, the demand for something has a direct impact on that something's value, while the supply of something has an inverse impact on that something's value. For example, if the demand for oranges goes up, the value of oranges goes up. If the supply of oranges goes up, the value of oranges goes down.

As applied to the situation of inter-racial dating in the black community, it is easy to see that when black men date inter-racially they are in effect reducing the supply of available black men from the pool of single men, thus increasing their own social value. Furthermore, by dating inter-racially they are perpetuating the already popular belief that black men are "masculine" and African features on men are attractive to women of all races, thus increasing the demand for themselves which also increases their own social value.

On the flip side, when black women refuse to date anyone but a black man, they are increasing their own supply in the pool of single women, thus decreasing their own social value. In addition to this effect of increased supply, they are also perpetuating the belief that black women are not available or attractive to men of other races which decreases the demand for black women which further decreases their own social value.

The results of this warped valuation of black men and women are quite obvious. Black men have everything to gain by maintaining the status quo while black women have everything to lose.

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

don't feel so alone, lol. I've thought about this situation in these terms before, especially in regards to preferences over the globe. Not many people are articulating the facts of social value when it comes to gender and color, but, I think this is the major source of anger for people who are unsettled by particular relationships. At some point, it just becomes embarrassing.

Amazing said...

I like the way you applied the theory of supply and demand to interracial relationships.

I was one of those women who vowed to only date Black men. But something started to happen. I entered college. I began working and interacting with people of many races. I am outspoken, attractive and very much into higher learning. Suddenly, the pool of IBM (Ideal Black Men) began to shrink. I didn’t want someone with a criminal record or a tribe of children. I wanted someone with a degree or pursuing a degree. I wanted someone who was goal oriented. I wanted to be with someone who shared the same aspirations of becoming successful and living the “American Dream”. And obviously I wanted (and now have) someone who could love me unconditionally and make a great friend, lover, husband, and father.

This is why I say any Black woman who is serious about settling down one day with a suitable partner will have to open up to dating interracially. Black women outnumber Black men on campus. So already, the odds are stacked against us. Black men are more open to dating and marrying interracially. Black men are imprisoned at a higher rate. Black men like do not know “how to act right”. Black men blame their social, economic, educational, and employment shortcomings on the White man. Black men this and Black men that. At some point in time, Black women will have to cut this sugar out. Stop moaning and date other people! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me again, shame on me. Fool me for many years and I’m just stupid.

I think Black women are getting the point now. It took awhile, but we’re getting there. This type of conventional thinking just harms Black women in the long run. I must say that I am very pleased at the increasing number of Black women choosing to date “out”. It shows we’re thinking about what’s best for us for a change.

tasha said...

It's embarrassing, because everyone knows!

I have two friends who are college-educated (lawyer and social worker), and say that they're "holding out for a brotha." Thing is, they have men of all races coming after them, and they refuse them repeatedly, in some cases. But that is another message for another day.

I liked this post. Well said!

Anonymous said...

Hi from Sharon in Ohio. I have been reading various IR blogs related to Black women dating out and finding good men regardless of race. Many of these blogs were very interesting in the beginning, but many of them have degenerated into online shouting matches and useless silly arguments. Anyway I am a Black woman and I am all for dating men of other races. In my own personal experience with online dating, I have much more luck with European and Middle Eastern men than white American men. I find that the Euro and Mideastern men seem to be more than willing to chat with me than white American men. I have ICQ on my computer and I have built up a nice list of Euro men that are close to my age (40's) I have developed some nice friendships with them and I also developed a really close friendship with a nice Turkish man who is divorced. He has treated me much better than any American man that I have met, on or offline. I plan to make a trip to Turkey in 2009 and hope to meet him in person. Right now we chat a lot on Windows messenger and I also have his home phone #. I think that Black women who are childless and have successful careers should really travel and look to men overseas in Europe because those men are more than willing to date/and or marry Black women than white American men are. I used to belong to afroromance.com but cancelled my membership there because I was not getting a lot of good responses. I have much better luck on ICQ. As far as black men are concerned, they can have all of those unattractive white women. Most Black men in my town are what Evia refers to as DBR's. They usually dont have a job or education beyond high school or any other long range goals in life.I dont want to date men like this. I hope that more Black women will wake up and do the same because we deserve much better. There were some white American men on Afroromance but they didnt seem all that serious about dating Black women. I think they were mainly interested in sex. I think that a Black American woman is much better off dating a European white or Mideastern man than an American man, black or white. Of course that is my opinion. I even noticed on Evias blog, most of the white men married to Black women tend to be Europeans. I was really impressed by the Nigerian model Oluchi and her handsome Italian husband and also by the count in Austria who married a very darkskinned African woman. Wow!! He was high class royalty and yet he married a very dark pure blood African woman! I dont think that would have ever happened in the USA, a white man of his stature marrying a pure blooded Black African woman. and by the way, I have sent my pics of myself to my online Euro/Mideastern male friends and they all thought that I was very attractive. I am not very dark but I am certainly not Euro-looking either.

Mir said...

Sangreneth, Can you check out my new blog?

http://blackfirewhitefire.blogspot.com/

thanks!

Siditty said...

This is an interesting post. You are right on point. Black women are undervalued, black men overvalued in the black community, and I guess within society.Black women are being told to expand our options, not outside the race, outside income levels. You are expected to like and love the burger flipper, even if you are a psychologist. You are expected to be with a black man and look past his criminal record, or two kids by two other women. You are expected to share your spouse since there is such a shortage. If you do get lucky and marry up within the black community, you are a gold digger, who drove him to cheat, beat you, and go off with a white or other non black woman. It ends up being your fault. It is a no win situation for black women now.

Sangraneth said...

"Sangreneth, Can you check out my new blog? "

Sure thing.

Miriam said...

Sombody needs to coin that last bolded phrase!

Desiree Lovely said...

I so agree with this posting. I also like the "economics" analogy. Because if you actually look at it, it is what it is. Black men are held up by not only BW, but other women who want them for whatever reason. They know they are a wanted. As my ex once told me, "You can leave, I don't care, I'll never be alone!" and "Any other woman would feel lucky to be in your shoes!". This is how highly he has thought of himself and in such, I should have thought that way also and continued to allow him to abuse me.


"It is a no win situation for black women now."


Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

I'm going to put this on a t-shirt....LOL

Dee

Taylor-Sara said...

Sangreneth
This was truly a fantastic peice of writing You are great! You broke that down so easily I could easily see what you were talking about and it is so true. That is exactly why BM don't want BW to date out! They do not care if we die old, sad, and alone. They just don't want their stock to plummet! Most of them really do not give a damn about the females in their communities at all. Black women MUST do what is in our OWN best interest! WE MUST DATE/MARRY OUT OR FACE LIVING AND DYING ALONE!!!

Halima said...

Sangraneth

i dont think you could get the bulk of bw to care about their depreciating value. this might change in the future but i believe in some warped way bw are offering bm this 'advancement at their expense', as a 'gift'.

remeber that bw are very anxious about emasculating bm and have become even more anxious to assist bm claim back his manhood. i wouldnt then think it too far fetched for bw to be feeling, maybe at a very deep subconscious level, that by facilitating the dynamic you describe, they are giving back bm their manhood!

i have often thought that this sentiment of 'assisting bmanhood' plays out whenever you see eloquent, intelligent bw subscribe to or insist that bw should still retain themselves for bm, and totally waive away the clear, undeniable and depressing stats that exist for bw around relationships!

bw are intelligent and we have many excellent analyst out there and i find it hard to believe that they too havent come to this conclussion as you carefully laid out, as i have laid out in my E-Book and as has been discussed by well known black psychologists like Orlando Patterson, but lifting up bm seems to trump even concerns for their own happiness and fulfillment.

i believe many bw feel that 'hareming' themselves to bm or continung to pursue the smaller numbers and thus increasing the stock value of bm, is an acceptable 'service' to blackmanhood!

Anonymous said...

SO true Sangraneth. SO true.

You are SHARP and observant.

Black women have lowered their value in everyone's eyes by stupidly choosing to be used by the so called black "community" over allowing themselves to be loved, cherished, and respected by good men regardless of race.

People (rightfully) question the sanity of African-American women when it comes to relationships.

Why the majority consider being basically a doormat to be used and ridiculed, as some kind of "honor".

It's NOT.

And it makes African-American women as a whole look less feminine and desirable to men in general.

The fact of the matter is masochism (when BW continually bolster BM's egos at the expense of their own that's all you can call it) has been fostered and ingrained in the BF psyche by the black woman hating black "community".

Therefore, you are naturally going to have only a small percentage of African-American women strong enough to resist this abuse and instead pursue good healthy loving relationships regardless of "race".

Blogs like yours, Evia's, Halima's, Aimee's, Sara's, C-1's, and the rest cause BW who have already resisted this brainwashing the extra push they need to look after their best self-interest and pursue relationships with men deserving of them.

It's wonderful that these blogs that enforce common sense and THINKING in BW (something the black "community" detests and actively fights against) are beginning to proliferate cyberspace.

They are sorely needed.

Evia said...

Great post! My bm cousin pointed this out some time ago and I mentioned it one of my blogs a few months ago. He said that this is why most AA men are NEVER going to warm up to bw dating out. He said that most bm are not even going to encourage their daughters to do it even if it means extinction for black females or black folks BECAUSE bm understand clearly that when bw date and marry out, this reduces bm value overall. Rejection = decreased value and at a time when bm are finally acquiring value, or so they think, they're not about to give that up for ANY reason. Keep in mind that most people think only about the short term.

My position has always been that, if possible, I would love for non-bw to take ALL of the DBRbm away from bw--LOL! because bw don't seem to be able to resist these men. I therefore think that bw should go onto those bm-nonbw sites and anonymously but actively ENCOURAGE those damaged bm to pursue non-black women.

The only reason why so many bw are bemoaning the loss of bm to non-bw is due to bw not realizing that the typical one of these men (of whatever educational or income level) is DBR, and this is why I've made it a point to highlight the epidemic of DBRbm.

Interestingly enough, Cosby and Poussaint are now highlighting the vast numbers of DBRbm too. It's better for these men to spread their damage out among women in the general populace. Why should it always be kept inside the "black community?" As I've often asked, 'why should bw take all the hits?

Anonymous said...

knockoutchick says:

Keep rolling out the truth :-)

Peace

pinkydj said...

Evia said..

"I therefore think that bw should go onto those bm-nonbw sites and anonymously but actively ENCOURAGE those damaged bm to pursue non-black women."
___________________________________

You are too much..lol. What an excellent idea !!

pinky

Black Velveteen said...

Sangraneth,

So far you have the very best "IR" blog. Keep up the great work. Very thought-provoking and very well written.

Sangraneth said...

"So far you have the very best "IR" blog. Keep up the great work. Very thought-provoking and very well written."

Wow. Thanks Velveteen. :) Although, I don't feel that my blog would deserve that distinction, especially considering all that Evia, Halima, and many of the other bloggers have done, I will gladly accept any compliment I can get. :)

Taylor-Sara said...

Sangraneth,
when you have a chance, could you stop by and give your brilliant intellect as to why women are attracted to bastards. You always break things down so well...

Taylor-Sara said...

oh, that address is
http://sarasbloginterraciallove.com/

Would love to have your comments/insights

Sangraneth said...

"Sangraneth,
when you have a chance, could you stop by and give your brilliant intellect as to why women are attracted to bastards. You always break things down so well..."

Thanks Sara. :) I'll take a look.

Michael said...
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Sangraneth said...

""So tell me, how did black men achieve this "status quo"?

Michael Fisher"

Well, if you know what the status quo is, it's not hard to figure how they are maintaining it.

Black men maintain the status quo by continuing to date inter-racially, while at the same time discouraging black women from doing so. It's quite simple.

Michael said...
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Sangraneth said...
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Michael said...
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Sangraneth said...
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Michael said...
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Saddie said...

I love this blog!!!
This post is deep. Teach child, teach.

Michael said...
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ANA said...

Black women should expand their horizons so to speak not because of the "shortage" of black men. That argument infers that white men are a second choice or that white men will save black women from spinsterhood. Personally, I don't want to marry someone who perceives me as the silver metal or vice versa.

Sangraneth said...
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Michael said...
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Anonymous said...

"If you care so much about them, then why aren't you ACKNOWLEGING their pain and encouraging them to expand their horizons and increase their chances of happiness? In otherwords, WHY AREN'T YOU DOING WHAT I'M DOING? It's a sad day when a white man has to help black women because black men don't want to!"

DING DONG KNOCK OUT PUNCH!

Sangraneth I salute you, you laid it out dude!

Selena said...

Sangraneth said...

If you cared one bit about the well-being of black women, why aren't you fighting against the stereotypes that they face? If you care so much about them, then why aren't you ACKNOWLEGING their pain and encouraging them to expand their horizons and increase their chances of happiness? In otherwords, WHY AREN'T YOU DOING WHAT I'M DOING? It's a sad day when a white man has to help black women because black men don't want to!

I said:

Damn near spit my Honey BBQ Fritos out my "mouf" *wheezing*

chandy said...

Sangraneth said...

"If you cared one bit about the well-being of black women, why aren't you fighting against the stereotypes that they face? If you care so much about them, then why aren't you ACKNOWLEGING their pain and encouraging them to expand their horizons and increase their chances of happiness? In otherwords, WHY AREN'T YOU DOING WHAT I'M DOING? It's a sad day when a white man has to help black women because black men don't want to!"

.....and why should he?. He can have his cake and eat it too!.
Sounds to me like another uninformed, scared, selfish, egocentric, arrogant DBRM!. Get lost!. I only share with my other sistas!!!.

Yan said...

Michael,
If your true concern is really about the well being of black women please share with us what you are doing to counteract the epidemic of deception and victimization that is being perpetrated by black men. What is your message to all the black men who refuse to marry or even enter into a committed relationship with their black partners?

Let me know after you get finished cleaning up all the shards of that glass house of yours.

Ms HerMajesty said...

I love love love this blog. I'm married to a black man and we have two daughters that we've encouraged to date inter-racially once they were old enough to understand. We only want their happiness. So I totally agree with your comments about how our females are devalued and treated as such by a community which keeps insisting that we have to help black men find their manhood. My husband has his manhood and he didn't need my help in locating it for him. He came with it already intact but unfortunately there are not enough black men out here like him.

Plus to MICHAEL and other black men like him, stop bringing up the past as a way of justifying your actions in the present. You black men DO NOT value black women because if you did this entire argument would truly be a moot point so find something new since your comments are weak.

Btw Michael it is a very sad day when a white man is the only man willing to speak up on behalf of black women while a black man only tries to find lackluster excuses for his pathetic behavior towards black women {as usual} while still covering his own narrow behind in the process.

The sad part is that there are way too many black men like you which is why I'm happy that my daughters realize that they do have choices and that it isn't limited to trying to find a good black guy with a great head on his shoulders and respect for women in general since those are harder to come by.

I had to go to another country to find my needle in a haystack but my daughters won't have to.

Michael said...
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Michael said...
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Selena said...

Michael if your site is so informative what in the hot hell are you doing over here?

*We stop feeding trolls after 6:00 PM*

Michael said...
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Yan said...

Michael,
I went to your site and read the post about hip hop apologists. On that, we are in agreement. I read some of your other posts and I listened to the interview you gave with Hicktown Press- the whole thing. Your POV is that the bw in the IR community are deluded lost souls looking for wm to be their savior when wm just aren't interested. As you wrote, "So if you think you can take the white women’s men from them, go ahead.
Y’all gonna get one hell of a bloody nose from these white girls.
But hey. That ain’t my immediate problem."

Apparently you think there's no way any white men would choose a black woman over a white one. Despite the fact that bw/wm unions are growing astronomically and that many of the bw bloggers you discussed are married to wm...except you believe Evia is a wm posing as a bw to fool us. You stated over and over again, "white men don't want to marry black women". And black men do? Isn't that why we needed "Marry your baby daddy day?"

What is your point in coming here? To enlighten us? To lead us out of the wilderness with your message of hope? The message of hope being: there aren't enough black men to go around, IR relationships are fine and dandy, BUT white men aren't interested in you(no matter what they say).

In your interview you blamed bw for the lamentable behavior of so many black men. "Black women need to learn to keep their legs closed." So that's the key. Black men shouldn't be expected to act like responsible caring human beings because black women are sluts. We don't deserve respect. Once again it boils down to bm not acting right b/c of something bw are doing. Sorry, but I'm not on board with any agenda that holds me accountable for correcting someone else's behavior.

I'm curious to know why you think wm are going to such lengths with these blogs- even posing as bw and all, as you said. If they just wanted a black piece of a**, it would be a lot faster and easier to post on Craig's List. Do you really think wm have some elaborate diabolical plan, involving fake internet identities, to bring down the black community? Seems a bit overwrought, don't you think?

Anonymous said...

He is just an example of one of the black men with a pathological need to be right and be seen as gracious. Have you ever noticed that in response to deeds of black men against black women and children such men will always be the first to tell you bw have it better than xyz women.

His blog is a joke. He claims to be about black people's advancement bu spews hate on any bw that goes against his all knowing doctrine for female life. Not to mention all his obvious portrayals of white women as better than black women in just about every way. Yet he like many black men who think like him would be unable to explain why black women are responsible for the dees of grown black men but white women aren't responsible for the deeds of grown white men.

Anonymous said...

What else do the likes of Michael fisher have to offer but the same ol' excuse making as to why bm continue to disappoint on all fronts, as if this will somehow bring bw closer to fulfilling their desires for a loving relationship in the present.

Truth be told, we have heard it all before and it is not getting bw any closer to their goal.

all those lengthy discussions are just a waste of time. When a person is hungry, drawing pictures of burgers however mouthwatering doesnt do anything for the situtaion and so i say, unless michael has a secret stash of bm hidden somewhere that he is willing to divulge, i suggest that bw just pass up this current attempt at buying bw sympathy and offering nothing concrete in return!

Michael said...
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Selena said...

michael said:,
Well, I had been told of this brillant white man. So I wanted to check him out. I'm always interested to find brilliance. I may learn something.

Now, about that Troll comment. Is that directed at me? If so, why do you see the need to insult me?

October 28, 2007 8:11 PM

Hey aren't you the same Michael that Evia has chased off her site who also posts as "Anon"?

Yan said...

Michael,
The only one that can lead you anywhere is yourself.

We had a moment of agreement there! We agree that each person must find his or her own way to enlightenment, but I'm sure enlightenment means something different to you than it does to me.

But then you couldn't resist your baser troll instincts. My "Master"? That's truly sad, and telling, that the only relationship you can conceive of between a black woman and a white man is that of slave and master. We could never relate to each other in a context of mutual respect certainly not one of love.

You've made it rather obvious that your view of black women is that we have an inferior intellect. I don't think you see bw as equal partners with bm either, but having a black master is not problematic for you. Maybe that's why only 2 of the 14 images in the banner for your blog are of black women: Harriet Tubman and a naked Halle Berry. Apparently there are no modern day black female role models and the only thing that defines us is who we're sleeping with. Suddenly your beef with the IR blogs is elucidated.

So sorry for getting out of my place by interjecting myself into your conversation. I thought if it were meant to be private you would have emailed him. Also, you seemed not to mind on your blog when other people commented on the conversation you had with C-1. The one where you referred to him as a cockroach and said white people were in league with the devil.

I've already been to your blog and found all the answers to my questions. Oh yes, indeed.

Sorry to those who tired of this exchange before I did.

Michael said...
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Sangraneth said...
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Anonymous said...

sangraneth it appears that "one of the Black Blogosphere’s leading Black Nationalist critical essayists and theorists" as he likes to be described, couldnt 'best' your arguments so he resorted to mud slinging and casting aspersions. Very sad given that this is but your 3rd blog entry.

I shudder to think that there was a time that we bw were held captive by their pea-brained arguments. God will just have to forgive us!

Anonymous said...

Sangraneth, it appears you broke Michaels heart and he went off to cry to his mammy enabler, like a little boy. His mammy mother has now written a long post attacking your person.

i will not post the link because they are all just foolish over there. You would expect more of a woman who claims to be christian and litters her posts with scripture. but she is as shrill and vitriolic as they come.

i need to take a wash anytime i go there, there are just not enough things on earth for that woman to rip apart. Her blog is just mired in negativity, and that voice on the blogradio, lord have mercy! She sounds like jezebel herself!

classical one said...

"The one where you referred to him as a cockroach and said white people were in league with the devil."

Yes, Micheal is in love with me, I'm his first white devil love.

Just kidding btw

Sangraneth said...

"Yes, Micheal is in love with me, I'm his first white devil love. "

Stop it. You're making me jealous.

LOL!

Daniel said...

Well, what about those black men with college degrees who get passed over by black women who want either thugs or white guys. If a black women is educated and kind of preppy, she wants a white man. If a black women is ghetto, the thug will be the father of her children.

dottie said...

Daniel said...

Well, what about those black men with college degrees who get passed over by black women who want either thugs or white guys. If a black women is educated and kind of preppy, she wants a white man. If a black women is ghetto, the thug will be the father of her children.
------------------------------------------
Well, the same thing could be said about black men too. After getting that college degree and a well-paid job, they want someone nice on their arm and "at their level". Not to say all black men do this, but a few because there's still a handful that still love black women and vice versa.

Guess you forgot about the environment that he/she grows up and what kind of people they grow up with too.

At the same time, we've got to stop blaming each other and admit that we have preferences that just isn't for the white men, it's for all colors!

Anonymous said...

You say that the two groups who are most enamoured of black men are black men and black women. You left out a third important group - white women.
Increasing numbers are involved with black men, many would like to be and even more entertain fantasies (rarely admitted to white males - never goes down well for some reason....)about what it would be like to be with one.
BTW in case you are wondering - I am a black female and almost everyday I am party to conversations in which ww salivate over black men or a witness to scenarios during which these ww do not hesitate to approach bm or make it clear to them that they (the ww) are available.
From the regular loving black male/white female relationships, via the booty call types right down to the mandigo experiment(black stud hiring services out to middle aged married, well-to-do white women)- white women can also add their group to the black male fan club.

Stardusky said...

To anonymous at 8:15, you can thank the nothing-but-a-black-man-brigade for that. What you see is a consequence of the cycle of devaluation of bw and overvaluation of bm in the black community, and the unwillingness of bw to venture out and expand their options. I am a member of various message boards, and I see way too many bw perpetuating stupid myths and stereotypes about bm supposed sexual prowesses and placing bm on a sexual pedestral.

If I were a ww, I'd be wanting to get with bm too. lol!! I'd ask myself, why would a group of women (bw) stick tooth and nail to a group of men (bm) and disregard their own personal benefits? There must be something fabulous about these men, if these women will save themselves for them in spite of these men's lack of loyalty toward them, right?

This is the issue being addressed in the piece written by Sangraneth. I sincerely hope bw as a group wake up and smell the roses.

Anonymous said...

Yours is an interesting point of view and set of facts. It makes things more clear for me. But look at it from my point of view: I am a 43-year-old white man who has ended a 13-year marriage to a black woman. My history has been to be with only black women. I want to love a black woman; I want a black woman to love me.
I have put myself in this box of being basically unavailable to most women, and then it is only a tiny minority of black women who will date outside their race, or consider me in particular, for whatever reason. It is illogical at the very least, narcissistic possibly as well. The sense of guilt about my outlook is kind of unavoidable.
I'm an educator. I keep in shape. I have one child. I'm not wealthy.
What are the prospects for me, from a market perspective?

Anonymous said...

I should have mentioned this in my first post, Sagraneth. I just wrote tonight about my prospects. What I wanted to add was this: is it any wonder that some of the black women who only date white men take advantage of their leverage percentage-wise and are bad actors? More plainly,a savvy sister knows very well how badly a white man wants her and she uses this. I know this is not the right forum for this but I lost a lot trying to finally win a woman I've decided after 15 years of encounters and much reflection is a psychopath--without conscience. She is notorious. Another woman I reconnected with last year is 42, highly intelligent, gorgeous, and has a good job. She says she wants to be married. Dates only white men. She has been proposed to half a dozen times in the last two decades. They're all in the dust.
As for the cheerleader piece, I think it's quite obvious what's more at work: old-fashioned racism. I've brought up this phenomenon with white male friends and it hasn't occurred to them. Just watch how the cheerleaders are viewed by the camera operators and directors. Beautiful black women will be swiveled by so we can go to commercial with the lasting image of the blond. The best looking women on the field are ignored or slighted by the mostly white production team. They don't think--or would never want wider America to get a hint--that they are taking note of black female beauty, and you should, too. It's so funny: If you dropped down from Mars and saw this juxtaposition of busty blonds kicking their heels over dusky males crashing into each other on the turf you wouldn't know what to make of it. What a country.

Anonymous said...

The 70% single rate among black american women is probably not news to most of you. I've heard countless discussions regarding this phenomenon and what might be causing it. While the startling number of black males who date inter-racially is acknowledged by most as a primary contributing factor, there are other consequences of black male interracial dating that I have not heard being discussed.

Interracial dating by black men is not a primary contributing factor and I will say that it is probably a very small factor. This is shown by the fact that the single rate for black men is roughly the same as the single rate for black women. Here are the major factors.

Divorce is a major factor. Roughly 30% of black women who are single are divorced. 10% are widowed. Thus, 40% of single black women are single as a result of losing their husbands. 60% of black women have been married. 70-75% will marry. There is a high divorce rate among blacks and that contributes to the single rate.

The greater tendency for black women to be single mothers is a major contributor. Having kids lowers a womans chances of getting married considerably (this when the biological father is not a prospect).

Also, weight is a factor. 70% of black women are overweight and studies have shown that an overweight woman is 20-25% less likely to marry than a woman who is not overweight. Many will try to cite the stereotype that black men like big women, but research has shown this to be exaggerated. While black men may be less turned off sexually by a women of greater weight, what one finds sexually arousing differs from what one views as a potential wife.

There are other factors, but IR by black men is really a non-factor.

Sangraneth said...

"Interracial dating by black men is not a primary contributing factor and I will say that it is probably a very small factor. This is shown by the fact that the single rate for black men is roughly the same as the single rate for black women."

You seem to be forgetting about all of the "single" black men who are in relationships with white and other non-black women, often more than one at a time. Single black women on the other hand are often forced to share a black man or remain alone.

Sangraneth said...

Anonymous said: "Also, weight is a factor. 70% of black women are overweight "

Weight also has nothing to do with it. I've seen black men time and time again pass up on slim, decent looking black women in favor of fat, ugly white women. If weight were a factor, this wouldn't be happening.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous who worried about his dating prospects

Have you been over to Classical One's blog? Where they are forever saying there are no white men around who want to seriously date black women. They are looking for you over there! Get yourself a blogger profile, and get over there.

Anonymous said...

Sangraneth said...

"Weight also has nothing to do with it. I've seen black men time and time again pass up on slim, decent looking black women in favor of fat, ugly white women. If weight were a factor, this wouldn't be happening."

This is not the case. For a lot of those black men the mere fact that those women are white is valuable enough to compensate for being fat and or ugly. So if the only white woman they can get is fat and ugly, they'll take her over a slim attractive black woman to get that whiteness. Women don't love short bald men, but a filthy rich short bald man will find plenty of willing partners, won't he?

Sangraneth said...

Anonymous said: "This is not the case. For a lot of those black men the mere fact that those women are white is valuable enough to compensate for being fat and or ugly."

I'm not saying that black men LIKE overweight women. I'm just saying that black men are rejecting black women, not because of their weight, but because they don't like black women.

What you just said proves my point. You admit that many have the attitude that being white COMPENSATES for being fat or ugly, as if being a white woman is a positive thing as opposed to being a black woman. This indicates that these men think white women are BETTER than black women, that's why being white compensates for being fat or ugly, but being black doesn't. This is proof that above attractiveness, weight, and all other things, these men place more importance on skin color than all else, with white women on top and black women at the bottom.

Maria said...

please continue to write in your blog. I enjoy reading what you have to say...a lot of what you write has captured my feelings and experiences. it's actually kind of scary.

Sangraneth said...

Thank you Maria. I will continue to write whenever I get the chance.

Anonymous said...

So very true. My heart just breaks at what these poor babies have been through. BW, you are the best, and if BM are too STUPID to realize that, then let them have their precious WW, or whatever otther non-BW they want. They are NOT worthy of you. Please expand your options, and give us non-BM the chance to love and cherish you like you so deserve.

To the BW, in closing, let me say this: BW, I love you.

Anonymous said...

"Stardusky said...
To anonymous at 8:15, you can thank the nothing-but-a-black-man-brigade for that. What you see is a consequence of the cycle of devaluation of bw and overvaluation of bm in the black community, and the unwillingness of bw to venture out and expand their options. I am a member of various message boards, and I see way too many bw perpetuating stupid myths and stereotypes about bm supposed sexual prowesses and placing bm on a sexual pedestral.

If I were a ww, I'd be wanting to get with bm too. lol!! I'd ask myself, why would a group of women (bw) stick tooth and nail to a group of men (bm) and disregard their own personal benefits? There must be something fabulous about these men, if these women will save themselves for them in spite of these men's lack of loyalty toward them, right?

This is the issue being addressed in the piece written by Sangraneth. I sincerely hope bw as a group wake up and smell the roses."
_____________________________

You speak nothing but the truth. For WW, the BM is a myth which needs to be explored. But what I have noticed is that BM do not change their ways when they get with a WW. They still cheat, are unemployed, do drugs, act irresponsibly. But now they are the WW's problem.

Once the BW starts to date interracially, the WW will not be so enamoured with the BM. In fact, she may start to become overprotective of her White turf (ie. WM). She will be competing with the ultimate beautiful "forbidden fruit" (BW) who is now highly educated and a great wage earner. She knows that if WM begin to date and more importantly MARRY BW in high numbers then more WM will follow.